Is gelatine haraam?

[w ά ŧ έ υ έ я]

Bismillahi wa salaatu wa salaamu 'alaa rasulillah,

(Taken entirely from a dars given by Sh. Muhammad Bazmool, translated by Moosa Richardson and a fatwa given by Sh. al-Albaani)

Istihala is when something becomes pure. It was najis (impure) but it is now taahir (pure). A good example would be maitah (animal carcass): it is najis, but should it be burned and become ashes, or decompose and become earth, then it is taahir, it is no longer najis. This can happen with dung or feces or whatever. Whenever something changes from one property to another, then the ruling likewise changes.

Example: Let us say that someone uses the fat of a dead animal to make soap. That fat is najis, but the chemical change that it was put through makes it taahir.

Ibn Hazm put it concisely when he said,

"Ruling upon an object is upon what it is named (what it is), if the name (what it is) changes then so does the ruling."

He also mentioned in his book of fiqh, Al-Muhalla: "If the quality of the substance of naturally impure objects changes the name which was given to it so that it is no more applicable to it and it is given a new name which is given to a pure object, so it is no more an impure thing. It becomes a new object, with a new rule."

Meaning that if the natural composition of a substance changes to another substance of a different composition, so much so that you can no longer call the new substance by the name of what it was-- ruling upon that substance changes too.

Proof/Example 1:

The companions (radyallahu anhum) used to eat a cheese that came from the land of the disbelievers. In that cheese was a part of the calf which was slaughtered by the disbelievers in a way that is not in accordance with Islaam. The companions knew this, but they also knew that the prohibition was upon the calf, what is directly from the calf, and what could be properly called part of the calf; the ruling is not upon that which you cannot identify as part of the calf nor is it called any longer such-and-such part of the calf. This is called istihala.

Proof/Example 2:

Another proof from the Sunnah: The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) forbade making vinegar out of wine, but he said that if you should come across vinegar that has been made from wine then it is halaal.

Why?

The ruling is upon what the object is, and not what it was. Wine is haraam; vinegar is not, and before the wine became an intoxicant, it was halaal. Why? Because it was fruit before that.

Proof/Example 3:

Allah says in the Qur'an:

"And surely there is a lesson for you in the cattle we give you to drink of what is in their bellies from between the feces and blood, pure milk, wholesome to those who drink it." (16:66)

Allah is putting forth an example for us of how something pure can come from something impure.

And we can also use as proof something that we've already gone over. The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said that when the hide of maitah (the carrion) is tanned, then it is taahir. He (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) gave us a method to purify something which was first impure.

Let us examine things we are familiar with: mono and diglycerides, whey, gluten, emulsifiers, gelatin, and whatever else is on the international haraam list. These by-products sometimes come from animals, pigs even, in which case the ruling on the initial substances is that they are haraam. But the initial substances (e.g. fat, marrow, cartilage, etc.) are put through chemical change so that you no longer can even call it "pig fat" or "animal bone" or "skin" or "cartilage", etc. because it is no longer that, hence it is taahir, it is halaal.

What is gelatin? As Oxford dictionary of science defines: "A colorless or pale yellow, water-soluble protein obtained by boiling collagen with water and evaporating the solution. It melts when water is added and dissolves in hot water to form a solution that sets to a gel on cooling." (page 290)

Is this a chemical change or is this not a chemical change? Is it protein any longer? No, it is not.

You are in disbelief so you ask, "But how can it be halaal when it came from something haraam?"

Because of the proofs mentioned above, the ruling is not based upon what it was, the ruling is based upon what it is. A Hanafi scholar, Ibn Abedin gave the example: "the swine which drowns in a salt lake and decomposes and becomes salt itself, is now halaal."

And other Hanafi scholars go on to say: "salt is different from meat and bones. If they become salt, they are salt."

To take the salt example further: salt consists of sodium chloride (NaCl) when together they are the halaal food known as salt, when separated they make up two poisonous substances which are then haraam for consumption.

The ahnaaf (Hanafis) also use as an example the human semen, saying that it is najis, then when it inseminates the egg and becomes a blood clot it is still najis, but when it becomes flesh it is no longer najis. And the ahnaaf are not the only ones who take this position.

The examples are numerous and they extend beyond food: Yesterday a man was kaafir and going towards Hell, today he is Muslim, so what is the ruling upon him? It is based upon what he is today.

We must be careful when we call things haraam because it is a form of thulm (oppression). Scholars have said that it is worse that you make something halaal to haraam rather than making something haraam to halaal. This deen Allah has made yusr (easy) let us not make it 'usr (hard). Wallahu 'Alim.

Rasheed Abdullaah

WAT DO U MAKE OV THAT?


go down the shops n buy sum haribo n drumsticks i say! lol

[BabyLeo]

Originally Posted by w ά ŧ έ υ έ я

i would! n i have...n i hated em! lol

muslims...typically the asian types...are jus stupid...sorry but they are...most ov them cant think outside the box...

i mean they stil go by the rules their parents or whoever gave in the 80's

most ov them never ate gelatin or them crisps because all they knew was they werent allowed to eat meat...so they decided u can only eat things that say "suitable for vegetarians"...

and its dispicable....u go to uni's u get a big time education...

but they cant be bothered to educate themselves abt stuf that matters...

so they go around sayin everythin is haraam...which as i sed...is a sin in itself!


grr...lol

smoke, do drugs and have sex out of marriage is ok in there(well some) eyes oh and cheat on there wiives

[w ά ŧ έ υ έ я]

ignorance is bliss ...as they say.....

[KALKI]

Originally Posted by w ά ŧ έ υ έ я

i would! n i have...n i hated em! lol

muslims...typically the asian types...are jus stupid...sorry but they are...most ov them cant think outside the box...

i mean they stil go by the rules their parents or whoever gave in the 80's

most ov them never ate gelatin or them crisps because all they knew was they werent allowed to eat meat...so they decided u can only eat things that say "suitable for vegetarians"...

and its dispicable....u go to uni's u get a big time education...

but they cant be bothered to educate themselves abt stuf that matters...

so they go around sayin everythin is haraam...which as i sed...is a sin in itself!


grr...lol

I UNDERSTAND UR POINT...AND TRUE IGNORANCE IS BLISS...MOST PEOPLE DONT HAVE A CLUE...NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE DUMB OR IGNORANT..

...IT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS ARE...TODAY WE HAVE THE INTERNET.

IF WE DONT UNDERSTAND SOMETHING...WE CAN DIG UP THR INFO...THINGS WILL ONLY GET BETTER AS TIME PROCEEDS...AWARENESS, SHARING OF FACTS...

WHAT DID THE OLDER GENERATION HAVE? SOME MOLVI OR PUNDIT WHO STANDS AN GIVES LECTURES IN A HOUSE OF WORSHIP...ITS THE SAME PATTERN FOR MOST RELIGIOUS FOLK..

"DO THIS , DO THAT"

THEN THE PARENTS COME HOME AND RELAY THE SAME CRAP TO THEIR KIDS ...AN KIDS BE LIKE "MY DAD SAID SO"

HALF THESE PEOPLE DON'T EVEN PICK UP THEIR RELIGIOUS BOOKS OR READ ANYTHING...THEY SPREAD THEIR "WISDOM" BY WORD OF MOUTH , TO WHOEVER THEY MEET...

RELIGION IS MORE LIKE A CURSE TO SOME.. THEN A WAY OF LIFE.

[w ά ŧ έ υ έ я]

like i sed...ignorance is bliss...the only reason religion is a curse to sum ppl...is cos they want to comform to the majority and not follow rules...

n if thats how society is evolving...into ignorance...God help the future generations...

[Original Sistah]

Originally Posted by w ά ŧ έ υ έ я

WAT DO U MAKE OV THAT?


go down the shops n buy sum haribo n drumsticks i say! lol

salaams sis... firstly, I think I should say that it is imperative that you do NOT take on everything you hear about Islam blindly, even if a scholar/imam says it, it doesn't matter, how do you know that that scholar/imam is legit? Also, we are encouraged in Islam not to follow blindly, because everything in islam has reason and logic behind it, it is not just a way of life for the sake of it

Halal meat is what Muslims MUST have, all blood must be drained from the carcass, and itmust be slaughtered in the halal manner, otherwise it becomes haraam. As for the soap, we are not eating it, we are putting it on our body - and then washing it off, another example is perfume - you may not want alcohol perfume on you - that's understandable, but the alcohol in perfume actually burns off when it comes in contact with your skin. The point of not having alcohol is because of the effects of intoxication

'Another proof from the Sunnah: The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) forbade making vinegar out of wine, but he said that if you should come across vinegar that has been made from wine then it is halaal. '

How can it be halal when it's from WINE?! wine is alcohol right, or am I missing something here? and erm where's the authentication... I could make up a hadith right here lol

Also, quotes from the qur'an are nice, but can definitely be misinterpreted. AND some sites online provide their own quotes if you know what I'm saying..

gelatine is gelatine - haraam, which is why there's such a thing called halal gelatine LOL

I'll finish by saying we must be VERY careful on what we call halal, when it is clearly haraam, if everything was allowed... why have halal////haraam in the first place? I think that salafi post was just looking for excuses on eating..

Remember... if you read something you don't think is right, QUESTION it, it may not be right, Islam has a reason for everything!

[Original Sistah]

Originally Posted by *¤C£üë£ë§§¤*

whr did u get d article 4rm?

many sites online cannot be trusted...

And as for the makkah people confirming it... ahem, some makkans fund mosques in UK with books etc that promote terrorism, we shouldn't put Makkans on a pedistool just because the Ka'bah is there

[Original Sistah]

Originally Posted by BabyLeo

oh also in asda they used to do halal haribos dont know if they do them anymore

they do they do lol LOVELY

[w ά ŧ έ υ έ я]

lol...

how do u know gelatine is haraam?

tell me where in the quran and hadith it specifically says GELATINE is haraam and i'll believe ya...

u can easily misinterpret the fact that..it says animals that are not cut in the halal way are haraam...but does it mention that when the cartilage of a haraam animal is denatured so much to make gelatine (cartilage its a protein...anything above a certain temperature denatures it so much so that its not the same thing anymore)...it is still haraam?

besides, the only reason so many people consider it to haraam is cos it doesnt say SUITABLE FOR VEGETARIANS on the packets its bought in....WAKE UP CALL! MUSLIMS ARE NOT VEGETARIANS!!!

and as for mekkans that promote terrorism...do u really think it was the same people who said gelatine is halaal? they are so radical that they say anything is haraam which is why they promote terrorism in the first place...IN MY OPINION!

and "sistah" what reason would islam have to make gelatine haraam when it, scientifically speaking it does not come close to anything you find in an animal...? ...mayb u shud question whether its haraam....hmmmm....

look at this way....if i took the bone of an animal...mashed it up into millions of pieces...exposed it to high temperatures, ran it thru something that breaks up the bonds that keep the bone together...and then ran it thru sumat else to join the bonds back together but forms a different product...can u still say that substance that is left...is bone? or cartilage? i dont think so...thats the same with gelatine...it doesnt come directly from the animal...

and btw the same people who make halal gelatine aint thinking about your religious beliefs love...they are thinkin ov a money makin scheme....LOL...

[MournfulDevil]

Gelatine .. This is why people now make Halal Gelatine n how..

Take two people one has a cow and the other one has a cow…

Person 1, who is a Non-Muslim kills the animal does what he has to do to make meat n gelatine with the bones and whatever else you want to eat.

Person 2, who is a Muslim kills the animal does what he has to do to make food from it and gelatine with the bones and whatever else you want to eat.

Now person 1 no matter what or how he kills the animal, it will never be Halal whereas person 2 who is the Muslim should…

Place the animal in a comfortable position facing Qibla and then when he slaughters an animal he must utter the name of Allah… so then it is Halal

No matta how the person 1 kills the animal it will neva be Halal unless he does the same actions as person two

The only way person 2’s meat can be Haram is if it is a pig and so on fourth …

So why buy gelatine stuff from Muslims and not Non-Muslims like brands like Asda and so on fourth … Because person two does it the Muslim way..

Reasons why I look for the Vegetarian sign in any superstore is because I know that they won’t kill animals in the way person two (Halal) does… so the best thing to do is act like a Vegetarian because they don’t eat meat

[w ά ŧ έ υ έ я]

the point is...

gelatine is not from the animal... it has no properties that are like those ov an animal...its just sumthing that can be made from a part ov an animal by changing the structure of something which is found in animals..

and if u know science...biology and chemistry in particular....you kno that once something has changed structure...it no longer has anything to do with the original place it came from...its not the same thing it was when it came from the animal....and who know's science more than any1? eh?

u need to get ur head around the fact that gelatine is not actually obtained from an animal....before u can even have this conversation.

even if you look up on a basic site about how u make gelatine...u'll understand why people see it as halal...