Is gelatine haraam?

[w ά ŧ έ υ έ я]

Bismillahi wa salaatu wa salaamu 'alaa rasulillah,

(Taken entirely from a dars given by Sh. Muhammad Bazmool, translated by Moosa Richardson and a fatwa given by Sh. al-Albaani)

Istihala is when something becomes pure. It was najis (impure) but it is now taahir (pure). A good example would be maitah (animal carcass): it is najis, but should it be burned and become ashes, or decompose and become earth, then it is taahir, it is no longer najis. This can happen with dung or feces or whatever. Whenever something changes from one property to another, then the ruling likewise changes.

Example: Let us say that someone uses the fat of a dead animal to make soap. That fat is najis, but the chemical change that it was put through makes it taahir.

Ibn Hazm put it concisely when he said,

"Ruling upon an object is upon what it is named (what it is), if the name (what it is) changes then so does the ruling."

He also mentioned in his book of fiqh, Al-Muhalla: "If the quality of the substance of naturally impure objects changes the name which was given to it so that it is no more applicable to it and it is given a new name which is given to a pure object, so it is no more an impure thing. It becomes a new object, with a new rule."

Meaning that if the natural composition of a substance changes to another substance of a different composition, so much so that you can no longer call the new substance by the name of what it was-- ruling upon that substance changes too.

Proof/Example 1:

The companions (radyallahu anhum) used to eat a cheese that came from the land of the disbelievers. In that cheese was a part of the calf which was slaughtered by the disbelievers in a way that is not in accordance with Islaam. The companions knew this, but they also knew that the prohibition was upon the calf, what is directly from the calf, and what could be properly called part of the calf; the ruling is not upon that which you cannot identify as part of the calf nor is it called any longer such-and-such part of the calf. This is called istihala.

Proof/Example 2:

Another proof from the Sunnah: The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) forbade making vinegar out of wine, but he said that if you should come across vinegar that has been made from wine then it is halaal.

Why?

The ruling is upon what the object is, and not what it was. Wine is haraam; vinegar is not, and before the wine became an intoxicant, it was halaal. Why? Because it was fruit before that.

Proof/Example 3:

Allah says in the Qur'an:

"And surely there is a lesson for you in the cattle we give you to drink of what is in their bellies from between the feces and blood, pure milk, wholesome to those who drink it." (16:66)

Allah is putting forth an example for us of how something pure can come from something impure.

And we can also use as proof something that we've already gone over. The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said that when the hide of maitah (the carrion) is tanned, then it is taahir. He (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) gave us a method to purify something which was first impure.

Let us examine things we are familiar with: mono and diglycerides, whey, gluten, emulsifiers, gelatin, and whatever else is on the international haraam list. These by-products sometimes come from animals, pigs even, in which case the ruling on the initial substances is that they are haraam. But the initial substances (e.g. fat, marrow, cartilage, etc.) are put through chemical change so that you no longer can even call it "pig fat" or "animal bone" or "skin" or "cartilage", etc. because it is no longer that, hence it is taahir, it is halaal.

What is gelatin? As Oxford dictionary of science defines: "A colorless or pale yellow, water-soluble protein obtained by boiling collagen with water and evaporating the solution. It melts when water is added and dissolves in hot water to form a solution that sets to a gel on cooling." (page 290)

Is this a chemical change or is this not a chemical change? Is it protein any longer? No, it is not.

You are in disbelief so you ask, "But how can it be halaal when it came from something haraam?"

Because of the proofs mentioned above, the ruling is not based upon what it was, the ruling is based upon what it is. A Hanafi scholar, Ibn Abedin gave the example: "the swine which drowns in a salt lake and decomposes and becomes salt itself, is now halaal."

And other Hanafi scholars go on to say: "salt is different from meat and bones. If they become salt, they are salt."

To take the salt example further: salt consists of sodium chloride (NaCl) when together they are the halaal food known as salt, when separated they make up two poisonous substances which are then haraam for consumption.

The ahnaaf (Hanafis) also use as an example the human semen, saying that it is najis, then when it inseminates the egg and becomes a blood clot it is still najis, but when it becomes flesh it is no longer najis. And the ahnaaf are not the only ones who take this position.

The examples are numerous and they extend beyond food: Yesterday a man was kaafir and going towards Hell, today he is Muslim, so what is the ruling upon him? It is based upon what he is today.

We must be careful when we call things haraam because it is a form of thulm (oppression). Scholars have said that it is worse that you make something halaal to haraam rather than making something haraam to halaal. This deen Allah has made yusr (easy) let us not make it 'usr (hard). Wallahu 'Alim.

Rasheed Abdullaah

WAT DO U MAKE OV THAT?


go down the shops n buy sum haribo n drumsticks i say! lol

[Original Sistah]

Hey whatever, sorry you were kind of low on my list of things to do. Considering your use of language, your lack of supporting evidence, lame attempts to prove your point & having to resort to personal attacks because of that, makes me realise that I shouldn't bother replying.

People who come to this debate will read both sides, and use their intelligence insh'Allah, to choose what they want to back. That's it end of. Bye

[jay999]

here is an interesting article on collagen casing

https://animalscience.unl.edu/web/an...enceGlossary#C

you cant really trust anything any more:

Sausage skins face ban over BSE fear
By Robert Uhlig, Food Correspondent12:01AM BST 23 May 2002
The future of premium sausages was under threat last night after the Food Standards Agency called for a Europe-wide ban of sausage casings made from lamb intestines because of a hypothetical risk of BSE in sheep.

With around one in six sausages covered in lamb casings, the ban will hit the new ranges of "artisan sausages" made from high-quality ingredients and using lamb casings instead of collagen skins.

Members of the sausage industry immediately condemned the proposed ban, saying scientists had yet to find any evidence of BSE in shee

Bill O'Hagan, a former Daily Telegraph journalist who became the pioneer of speciality sausages in 1988, said: "I am horrified at the thought of it. Many of my customers buy sausages in lamb casings because their children are allergic to collagen casings or because they cannot eat pork casings for religious reasons."

Bob Harder, a committee member of the Natural Sausage Casing Association, said the ban would lead to the loss of 15,000 jobs and kill a business worth £2.8 billion a year throughout the European Union where 128 million sheep intestines are consumed every year.

"They are cherry-picking one item and pretending we are protecting the public from a risk - albeit a hypothetical one - when it would be present in much greater amounts in the brain and lymph nodes of muscle such as leg of lamb, both of which are not banned," he said. The measure could cost the sheep industry up to £6.5 million and the sausage industry around £60 million a year.

The FSA report also suggests that communities which are more likely to consume mutton and goat, such as Muslims and Afro-Caribbeans, should be alerted to the higher theoretical risk in older animals.

Baby food manufacturers should also be asked to label products containing lamb with the country of origin so parents can make "informed choices", the report said.

The report was produced by key "stakeholders", including the Meat and Livestock Commission, the Consumers' Association, the Human BSE Foundation and the FSA itself.

Tests are still being carried out to see if BSE has crossed from cows to sheep but the FSA has acknowledged there was a "theoretical" risk to consumers.

Sir John Krebs, chairman of the FSA, stressed that the agency was not advising against eating lamb, mutton or goat meat.

"While no sheep alive today are likely to have been exposed to any original source of infectivity, the theoretical risk that BSE could be present in sheep by virtue of transmission, and masked by scrapie, remains."

The report also called for the development of a rapid test to detect the disease in sheep.

Public uncertainty over the issue was fuelled last October when Government research into BSE in sheep in the 1980s collapsed after it emerged that scientists had been testing cow brains instead of sheep brains.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-BSE-fear.html

[diva_2620]

Ok, so here we have the process of making gelatine
I would still not eat it...

Gelatin is a soluble albumin-like protein derived from the prolonged boiling of animal tissues (typically bones, skin, and tendons). As a result, the product loses some of its gelling properties, but becomes a more effective fining agent.

Gelatin is employed primarily to remove excess tannins from wines. It is usually added early during maturation. This avoids color loss that would be more pronounced if conducted later (due to the continuing polymerization of anthocyanins with tannins). When gelatin is added to white wine, there is a risk of leaving a gelatin-derived haze. This may be avoided by the simultaneous addition of flavorless tannins, Kieselsol, or other protein-binding agents. These materials favor the formation of the fine meshwork of gelatin fibers that removes tannins and other negatively charged particles. Excessive fining with gelatin can result in undesirable color loss in red wines.

Although the risks are minimal, gelatin use has been mentioned as a possible source of wine contamination with prions associated with Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE or mad-cow disease). Wine fined with gelatin derived from infected animal tissue could contain active prion proteins. The internal bondings of this infectious protein are so remarkable that the rendering process used in producing gelatin does not inactivate these infectious agents. Although the actual risk of gelatin's use to human health is unknown, the possibility has prompted the study of substitutes made from plant proteins, such as wheat gluten (Marchal et al., 2002; Fischerleitner et al., 2003). In the United States, most gelatin is derived from pig skins, a source free of BSE.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...23736468500111

[w ά ŧ έ υ έ я]

Originally Posted by diva_2620

Ok, so here we have the process of making gelatine

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...23736468500111

Exactly!

[MystifiedMuslimah]

Originally Posted by w ά ŧ έ υ έ я

the point is...

gelatine is not from the animal... it has no properties that are like those ov an animal...its just sumthing that can be made from a part ov an animal by changing the structure of something which is found in animals..

and if u know science...biology and chemistry in particular....you kno that once something has changed structure...it no longer has anything to do with the original place it came from...its not the same thing it was when it came from the animal....and who know's science more than any1? eh?

u need to get ur head around the fact that gelatine is not actually obtained from an animal....before u can even have this conversation.

even if you look up on a basic site about how u make gelatine...u'll understand why people see it as halal...

Even if gelatin is a seprate by product how is it halal?


"So eat of that [meat] upon which the name of Allah has been mentioned, if you are believers in His verses.
https://quran.com/6/118


And why should you not eat of that upon which the name of Allah has been mentioned while He has explained in detail to you what He has

forbidden you, excepting that to which you are compelled. And indeed do many lead [others] astray through their [own] inclinations without knowledge. Indeed, your Lord - He is most knowing of the transgressors."
https://quran.com/6/119


And leave what is apparent of sin and what is concealed thereof. Indeed, those who earn [blame for] sin will be recompensed for that which they used to commit.
https://quran.com/6/120


"And do not eat of that upon which the name of Allah has not been mentioned, for indeed, it is grave disobedience. And indeed do the devils inspire their allies [among men] to dispute with you. And if you were to obey them, indeed, you would be associators [of others with Him]."
https://quran.com/6/121

[eesha01]

I agree with the beef crisp comment.. Here we have problems with beef collagen casing..
sometimes sausages or things have have beef casing so we don't buy it..
not all the food packets are labeled

[Queen_Sabah]

Hi, I stumbled on this topic...

Let me say this, raw gelatin is extracted from the skin or bones of camels, cattle, sheeps, pigs and cows... How do we know that the animal is halal or haram???

[FemaleSolja786]

Haram, don't risk it

[jasmin]

Certain types of medications contain geletine Just saying

[DeAth_St4r]

Originally Posted by jasmin

Certain types of medications contain geletine Just saying

lololololol

imagine if yews in pain or dying an then debating whether to take meds or not all bcoz of gelatine haha