Civilization and Transcendence

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This next question is rather interesting, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "Is it not possible for all kinds of spiritualists—be they Advaitans [advocates of oneness of the self with God], Dvaitans [advocates of total difference between the self and God], or Viṣiṣṭādvaitans [advocates of qualified oneness of the self with God]—come together instead of remaining isolated as warring factions?"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the process taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu—to bring all the Dvaitans and Advaitans together on one platform. Everyone has to understand that he is essentially a servant of God. The Advaitan wrongly thinks that he is absolutely one with God, that he himself is God. That is wrong. How can you become God? God is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam, full in six opulences. He has all power, all wealth, all beauty, all fame, all knowledge, and all renunciation. So this Advaitan idea is artificial—to think you're able to become God.

The Dvaitans stress that one is utterly different from God, that God is separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that the living entities are part and parcel of God. And in the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13): both God and His creatures are living entities, though God is the chief. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: the difference between the two is that God maintains all the other living entities. That is a fact. We are maintained, and God is the maintainer. We are predominated—we are not independent—and God is the predominator. But because the predominated living entities are part and parcel of God, in quality they are one with God.

So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy is acintya-bhedābheda: the living entities are simultaneously one with and different from the Lord. The living entity is one in the sense that he is part and parcel of God. So if God were gold, the living entity would also be gold. That is oneness in quality. But God is great, and we are minute. In that way we are different. That is why Caitanya Mahāprabhu enunciated this philosophy of acintya-bhedābheda: inconceivable, simultaneous oneness with and difference from God. That is real philosophy.

So on the platform of this philosophy, everyone can come together, if they are reasonable. If they remain unreasonably stuck up in their own concocted philosophy, then it is difficult. But it is a fact that the living entity is eternally one with and different from God. Find this verse: mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke.

Hari-sauri:

mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
prakṛti-sthāni karṣati

"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind." [Bg. 15.7]

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So if the living entity is eternally a fragmental part, how can he become one with the whole? The part is never equal to the whole. That is an axiomatic truth. So it is a wrong conception to try to become equal to God. The Māyāvādīs are trying to become God, but that is impossible. Let them try to become godly. Godly means "servant of God." That will make them perfect. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy teaches that we can remain in our natural position but act as a servant of God. That is perfect. But if the servant tries to become the master, that is artificial.

Of course, in the spiritual world there often seems to be no difference between the master and the servant. For instance, Kṛṣṇa's friends the cowherd boys—they do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. They play with Him on equal terms. When Kṛṣṇa is defeated in play, He has to take His friend on His shoulder and carry him. The friends do not know who is God and who is not God. So that is the advanced spiritual conception. Of course, the difference is always there between God and the part-and-parcel living entities, but by the influence of God's internal potency, the understanding is covered. We can attain that position after many, many lives of pious activities. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam [10.12.11]:

itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā
dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena
māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa
sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ

The cowherd boys are playing with Kṛṣṇa. And who is Kṛṣṇa? He is the essence of brahma-sukha, spiritual bliss. He is Param Brahman, the Supreme Spirit. So the boys are playing with Param Brahman, though to an ordinary man He appears to be an ordinary child. how have the cowherd boys gotten the position of being able to play with Kṛṣṇa? Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ: After many, many lives of pious activities, they have gotten the position of playing with Kṛṣṇa on equal terms.

So this is the conception of pure devotional service—that when you go to Goloka Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa's abode, you love Kṛṣṇa so much that you will not distinguish between the Supreme Lord and His subordinates. The inhabitants of Kṛṣṇa's abode have such unflinching love for Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana life. The cows, the calves, the trees, the flowers, the water, the elderly men, Kṛṣṇa's parents Nanda Mahārāja and Yaśodāmayī—everyone is intensely attached to Kṛṣṇa. Everyone's central point is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is loving Kṛṣṇa so much that they do not know He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Sometimes the residents of Vṛndāvana see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful activities and think, "Kṛṣṇa must be some demigod who has come here." They never recognize that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead—or if they do, Kṛṣṇa makes them immediately forget. When Kṛṣṇa manifested His pastimes on earth some five thousands years ago, He passed through many dangerous situations—so many demons were coming—and mother Yaśodā would chant mantras to protect Kṛṣṇa, thinking, "He may not be put into some calamity." Kṛṣṇa's family and friends never understood that Kṛṣṇa is God. Their natural love for Kṛṣṇa was so intense. Therefore Vṛndāvana life is so exalted. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught, ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeṣa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam: First of all, Kṛṣṇa-Vrajendra-nandana, the son of Nanda Mahārāja—is ārādhya, worshipable. Then, tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam: His dhāma, or abode—Vṛndāvana—is equally worshipable.

So these facts pertain to a higher standard of understanding. Only a devotee can understand that to become one with God is not a sublime idea. In Vṛndāvana the devotees want to become the father or mother of God—to control God with love. This fact the Māyāvādīs, or Advaitavādīs, cannot understand. Only pure devotees can understand these things. What is the benefit of becoming one with God?

Even other Vaiṣṇava philosophies cannot explain the higher relationships with God, which Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained. These are vatsalya-rasa [parenthood], and madhurya-rasa [conjugal love]. Caitanya Mahāprabhu especially taught that our relationship with Kṛṣṇa can be in conjugal love, madhurya-rasa.

But as for our general understanding, Lord Caitanya introduced the philosophy of acintya-bhedābheda—simultaneously one with and different from the Lord. That is explained by Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā [15.7]: mamaivāṁśo ... jīva-bhūtaḥ—the living entities are part and parcel of God. So we are one with God, since we have God's qualities in minute degree. But God is the master, and we are always subordinate. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān: we are protected, we are maintained, we are predominated. That is our position. We cannot attain the position of predominator. That is not possible.


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Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "As the world is coming to be divided into just two classes—atheist and theist—is it not advisable for all religions to come together? And what positive steps can be taken in this direction?"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The steps to be taken have already been explained—this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The atheist class and the theist class will always exist. This is the nature of the material world. Even at home—the father may be an atheist like Hiraṇyakaśipu, and the son a theist like Prahlāda. So atheists and theists will always exist—in the family, in the community, in the nation.

But the theists should follow the instructions of the Bhagavad-gītā and take shelter at Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, giving up other, so-called religious principles. That will bring religious unity. Religion without a clear conception of God is humbug, bogus. Religion means to accept the order of God. So if you have no clear conception of God, if you do not know who God is, there is no question of accepting His order. Find this verse in the Sixth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19].

Hari-sauri:

dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam
na vai vidur ṛṣayo nāpi devāḥ
na siddha-mukhyā asurā manuṣyāḥ
kuto nu vidyādhara-cāraṇādayaḥ
[SB 6.3.19]

"Real religious principles are enacted by . . ."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ah. "Real." Go on.

Hari-sauri: "Real religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although fully situated in the mode of goodness, even the great sages who occupy the topmost planets cannot ascertain the real religious principles, nor can the demigods or the leaders of Siddhaloka, to say nothing of the demons, ordinary human beings, Vidyādharas, and Cāraṇas."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hm. Read the next verses also.

Hari-sauri:

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ
kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ
prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
balir vaiyāsakir vayam

dvādaśaite vijānīmo
dharmaṁ bhāgavataṁ bhaṭāḥ
guhyaṁ viśuddhaṁ durbodhaṁ
yaj jñātvāmṛtam aśnute
[SB 6.3.20-21]

"Lord Brahmā, Bhagavān Nārada, Lord Śiva, the four Kumāras, Lord Kapila [the son of Devahūti], Svayāmbhuva Manu, Prahlāda Mahārāja, Janaka Mahārāja, Bhīṣmadeva, Bali Mahārāja, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and I myself [Yamarāja] know the real religious principle. My dear servants, this transcendental religious principle, which is known as bhāgavata-dharma, or surrender unto the Supreme Lord and love for Him, is uncontaminated by the material modes of nature. This transcendental religious principle is very confidential and difficult for ordinary human beings to understand, but if by chance one fortunately understands it, he is immediately liberated, and thus he returns home, back to Godhead."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So these mahājanas-Brahmā, Nārada, Lord Śiva, and so on—they know what the principles of religion are. Religion means bhāgavata-dharma, understanding God and our relationship with God. That is religion. You may call it "Hindu religion" or "Muslim religion" or "Christian religion," but in any case, real religion is that which teaches how to love God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: [SB 1.2.6] if by following some religious system you come to the platform of loving God, then your religious system is perfect. Otherwise, it is simply a waste of time—bogus religion, without a clear conception of God. So we have to understand what God is and what He says, and we have to abide by His orders. Then there is real religion, there is real understanding of God, and everything is complete.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one may ask why someone like Christ or Moses is not mentioned among the mahājanas.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: There are mahājanas among the Christian saints. They include Christ, and in addition to Christ, so many others—St. Matthew, St. Thomas, and so forth. These mahājanas are mentioned in the Bible. A mahājana is one who strictly follows the original religion and knows things as they are. And that means he must be coming in the paramparā, the system of disciplic succession.

For instance, Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā directly from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Arjuna is a mahājana. So you should learn from Arjuna. You follow the way Arjuna acted and the way Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa. Then mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: [Cc. Madhya 17.186] you are following the mahājana—you are on the real path. Just as we are. In these verses from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is a list of mahājanas, including Svāyambhu, or Lord Brahmā. So this sampradāya of ours is called the Brahma-sampradāya. Our sampradāya also includes Nārada, another mahājana. Sambhu, or Lord Siva, is still another mahājana. He has his own sampradāya, the Rudra-sampradāya. And similarly, Lakṣmī, the goddess of fortune, has the Śrī-sampradāya.

So we must belong to one these sampradāyas. Sampradāya-vihinā ye mantrās te niṣphalā matāḥ: if you do not belong to a bona fide sampradāya, originating from a mahājana, then your religious process is useless. You cannot concoct some religious system. So whether you follow the Christian mahājanas or the Vedic mahājanas, it doesn't matter. But you have to follow the mahājanas. If a Christian says, "I don't believe in St. Thomas," what kind of Christian is he? It doesn't matter which mahājana we are discussing. The real mahājana is he who is strictly following the principles enunciated by God. Then he is following a real religious system. Otherwise, there is no question of religion. The so-called follower is simply a mano-dharmī, a mental speculator. Mental speculation is not religion. Religion is the order of God, and one who follows that order—he is religious. That's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Then as far as I can understand, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're saying that there's no need to maintain sectarian labels, that there's one religion in the world.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One religion exists already: how to love God. This is the one religion. Will the Christians say, "No, we don't want to love God"? Will the Muhammadans say, "No, no, we don't want to love God"? So religion means how to love God, and any religion which teaches how to love God—that is perfect. It doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Muslim or Hindu.

Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: [SB 6.3.19] "Real religion is directly enunciated by Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." So, Bhagavān, Lord Kṛṣṇa, says, "surrender unto Me." Of course, you cannot surrender until you love. For instance, you are surrendered to me. Even though I am not from your country, because you have love for me, you surrender. If I say, "do this," you'll do it. Why? Because you love me. So when will there be surrender to God? When one loves God—when one reaches the platform where he thinks, "O Lord, I love You; I can sacrifice everything for You." That is the basic principle of religion.

Therefore, that religion is perfect which teaches its followers how to love God. So let everyone come to this platform of loving God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching nothing but how to love God, how to sacrifice everything for God. That is real religion. Otherwise, it is all a bogus waste of time, simply a following of ritualistic ceremonies. That is not religion. That is superfluous. As stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam [1.2.8],

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
śrama eva hi kevalam

"You are very good; you are following your religious principles very strictly. That's all right—but what about your love of God?" "Oh, that I do not know." So, the Bhāgavatam says, śrama eva hi kevalam: "Your religion is simply a waste of time—simply laboring. That's all. If you have not learned how to love God, then what is the meaning of your religion?"

But when you're actually on the platform of love of God, you understand your relationship with God: "I am part and parcel of God—and this dog is also part and parcel of God. And so is every other living entity." Then you'll extend your love to the animals also. If you actually love God, then your love for insects is also there, because you understand, "This insect has got a different kind of body, but he is also part and parcel of God—he is my brother." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: you look upon all living beings equally. Then you cannot maintain slaughterhouses. If you maintain slaughterhouses and disobey the order of Christ in the Bible—"Thou shall not kill"—and you proclaim yourself a Christian, your so-called religion is simply a waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam: [SB 1.2.8] your going to the church and everything is simply a waste of time, because you have no love for God. That foolishness is going on all over the world. People are stamping themselves with some sectarian label, but there is no real religion.

So if all people are to come together on one platform, they have to accept the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. The first principle is that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you do not accept in the beginning that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, then try to understand this gradually. That is education. You can begin by accepting that there is somebody who is supreme.

Now, if I say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord," you may say, "Why is Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord? Kṛṣṇa is Indian." No. He is God. For example, the sun rises first over India, then over Europe. But that does not mean the European sun is different from the Indian sun. Similarly, although Kṛṣṇa appeared in India, now He has come to the Western countries through this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

So you should try to understand whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not. But He is God. There is no doubt about it. If you have the intelligence to understand what God is, then try to understand. But Kṛṣṇa is God, undoubtedly. So take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Then everyone can come together on the same religious platform. One religion, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes in our preaching activities we meet people who claim to be very devout Christians or Muslims but at the same time blaspheme Kṛṣṇa. Is it possible that such persons can actually be associates of God?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No. If one is serious about understanding what God is, then he will accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord. Once he knows what God is, he'll understand, "Here is God-Kṛṣṇa." If he remains in darkness and does not learn what God is, then how will he understand Kṛṣṇa? He'll understand Kṛṣṇa as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what God is, then he'll understand about Kṛṣṇa: "Yes, here is God."

For instance, if a person knows what gold is, then anywhere he comes upon gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." He won't think gold is available in one shop only. And if a person knows what God is, what the meaning of "God" is, then in Kṛṣṇa he will find God in fullness. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: [SB 1.3.28] "Kṛṣṇa Himself is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." The śāstra explains what Bhagavān, or God, is, and how Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān. You should understand and see from the activities of Kṛṣṇa whether He is or is not Bhagavān. It requires a good brain to understand. If I say, "Here is God," now it is up to you to test my statement. If you know what God is, then test my statement about Kṛṣṇa, and then you'll accept Him as God. If you do not know how to test my statement, then you may refuse to accept it. That is another thing. You may also accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance: you do not know what gold is. But if you actually know what God is, you will accept Kṛṣṇa as God. There is no doubt about it.

So this is the common platform—Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone, come and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Understand God and learn how to love Him, and your life will be perfect.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But many people claim to have the best religion, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But we have to look at the result. how will we decide what is real religion? Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: [SB 1.2.6] by seeing whether the followers have learned how to love God. If one has no love of God, then what is the use of claiming that one's religion is the best? Where is the sign of love of Godhead? That is to be seen. Everyone will say, "My understanding is the best." But there must be practical proof.

If someone claims to have the best religion, we ask, "Tell us how to love God. What is your process of loving God? If you do not know your relationship with God and others' relationship with God, then how can you love God?" That process of loving God is lacking. Nobody can give a clear conception of God. If you have no understanding of what God is, where is the question of love? Love is not mere fantasy or imagination. You cannot love air. You love a person, a beautiful person. If you merely say, "I love the air, I love the sky," what question is there of love? There must be a person. So who is that person we want to love?

Unfortunately, most people have no personal conception of God. Nor can they describe the Lord's personal beauty, knowledge, strength—His fullness in the six personal opulences. There is no such description. They have some conception of God, but actually they do not know what God is. But religion means you must know God and love Him. Love is something tangible. It is not merely fantasy or imagination. So we Kṛṣṇa conscious people accept Kṛṣṇa as God, and we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa, and we are making progress.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Recently a priest visited us and admitted that he didn't know what God looks like. He couldn't say anything about God, but he said he loved God.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Then? What kind of love is it?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nor did he say his people were very enthusiastic about coming to church. He said, "At best they come once a week." He said that's all that is necessary.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Well, love does not mean that you come once a week to my house. Love means you come to my house every day, give me some present, and take something from me. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī describes the symptoms of love in his Upadeṣāmṛta [4];

dadāti pratigṛhṇāti
guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati
bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva
ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam

If you love somebody, you must give him something, and you must accept something from him. You must disclose your mind to him, and he should disclose his mind to you. And you should give him some eatable, and whatever eatable thing he offers, you accept. These six kinds of exchange develop love.

But if you do not even know the person, then where is the question of love? Suppose you love some boy or some girl, then you will give some present, and he or she gives you some present—that develops love. You give something to eat, and whatever he or she gives you to eat, you eat. You disclose your mind: "My dear such-and-such, I love you. This is my ambition." And he or she makes some disclosure. These are the exchanges of love.

But if there is no person-to-person meeting, where is the question of love? If I claim to love somebody, but I visit his house only once a week and ask,"Please give me such-and-such," where is the exchange of love? Love means there is some exchange. If you love somebody but you have not given anything to that person or taken anything from him, where is the love?

The conclusion is, religion means to love God, and that means you must know who God is. There is no alternative. You must know the person who is God. Then you can have loving exchanges with Him. That we are teaching. We are asking our disciples to rise early in the morning and offer maṅgala ārati, then bhoga ārati, to the Lord in His form as the Deity in the temple. Are we such fools and rascals that we are wasting time worshiping a "doll"? Sometimes people think like that. But that is not a fact. When you enter the temple, you know definitely, "Here is Kṛṣṇa. He is God, and we must love Him like this." That is the superexcellence of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We do everything definitely, on the positive platform. Is that clear? Does anyone have any further question?

Pradyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're saying we must know God before we can love Him. So that means devotional service is preceded by knowledge.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the process given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There are eighteen chapters, and the whole eighteen chapters are education—how to know God. When Arjuna at last comes to complete awareness, he accepts, "Kṛṣṇa, You are paraṁ brahma, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Then Arjuna surrendered, as Kṛṣṇa advised—sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. But unless you know God, how will you surrender? If some third-class man comes and says, "Surrender to me," will you do that? "Why should I surrender to you?" You must know, "Now, here is God. I must surrender." Eighteen chapters describe God and how to know God, and then Kṛṣṇa proposes, "Surrender unto Me." Then Arjuna does it: "Yes." So without knowing God, how can you surrender to Him? It is not possible.

So the Bhagavad-gītā is the science of how to know God. The preliminary science. If you want to know more, then read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And if you are in intense love with God, read Caitanya-caritāmṛta—how your love for God can be still more intensified. That is Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary book: to understand God and surrender. And from the surrendering point, further progress—that is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And when the love is intense, to make it more intensified—that is Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was mad after God. He cried, śūnyāyitam jagat sarvaṁ govinda viraheṇa me: "I find everything vacant without Kṛṣṇa." That is the supreme ecstasy.

So these things cannot happen without love. If you love somebody and he's not there, you find everything vacant. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu felt this way about Kṛṣṇa—lover and beloved. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda viraheṇa me: "I see everything vacant without Govinda." That is the supreme stage of love. Is that clear or not?

Pradyumna: There's just one more thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda. What's the minimum knowledge one must have to . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: God is great. That's all. God is great. Kṛṣṇa proved that He's great. Therefore He's God. Everyone says, "God is great." Allah-u-akbar, the Muslims say: "God is great." And Hindus say, paraṁ brahma: "You are the Supreme Spirit." So God is great. And when Kṛṣṇa was present, He proved that He is all-great. Therefore He's God. If you accept that God is great, and if you find somebody who is great in everything, then He is God. How can you deny it? You can see how great Kṛṣṇa is simply by considering His Bhagavad-gītā. Five thousand years have passed since Kṛṣṇa spoke Bhagavad-gītā, and still it is accepted as the greatest book of knowledge all over the world. Even people from other religions who are really learned accept it. That is proof of the greatness of Kṛṣṇa—this knowledge. Who can give such knowledge? That is the proof that He is God. Kṛṣṇa has all opulences in full, including knowledge. Other than here in Kṛṣṇa's words, where is such knowledge throughout the whole world? Every line is sublime knowledge. If you study Bhagavad-gītā scrutinizingly, you'll understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "Do you envision a different role for the Vedic culture in the Western countries, where the influence of other great religions has been felt for centuries?"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No. There is no "different role." God is one. God cannot be two. As Kṛṣṇa states in the Bhagavad-gītā [7.7], mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: "There is no authority superior to Me." That is God. Now people have to understand that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no "different role" for the Vedic culture. The role is the same worldwide. Five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa said, "I am the supreme authority. There is no authority superior to Me." He is still so. Therefore we are simply attempting to introduce Kṛṣṇa.

Previously nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority, Kṛṣṇa, all over the world. We are just trying to introduce Kṛṣṇa, following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who appeared five hundred years ago. He is Kṛṣṇa, and He wanted this Kṛṣṇa consciousness to be spread all over the world:

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma
sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
[CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126]

"In every town and village throughout the world," said Lord Caitanya, "the chanting of My holy name will be heard." Kṛṣṇa is not just for India. He is for everyone, because He is God. In Bhagavad-gītā He affirms, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the seed-giving father of all living entities"—not just the living entities in the human society, but also all other living entities, like the aquatics, the insects, the plants, the birds, and the beasts.

Everything is there in the Vedic culture, but this culture of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is summarized in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, had not been preached properly. Everyone had interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in his own way, to satisfy his own whims. We are just trying for the first time to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is becoming effective. So this is not a "different role" for the Vedic culture. It is the actual role. Nobody had tried for it; therefore Kṛṣṇa had been unknown in the Western countries. But even though we have been attempting to introduce Him for only a few years, still, because it is reality, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being accepted. So it is not a new role for the Vedic culture. The role is already there—to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's vision. He says especially to people born in India,

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
[Cc. Ādi 9.41]

"Anyone who has taken his birth as a human being in India, Bhāratavarṣa, should make his life successful and work for the upliftment of the whole world." Indians are meant for this business—for the upliftment of the whole world—because all over the world people are unaware of Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who is born in India should attempt to broadcast the message of Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. That is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

This is not a new role for the Vedic culture. The role is already there. Five hundred years ago, Caitanya Mahāprabhu spoke of it. But all the various swamis and yogis who came here—they never introduced Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now it is being done, and people are accepting, naturally. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

So if everyone joins—either Indian or non-Indian—in this movement, there will be one religion and there will be peace. Peace will prevail. This is the only way.

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
[Bg. 5.29]

"A person in full consciousness of Me, knowing Me to be the ultimate beneficiary of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods, and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attains peace from the pangs of material miseries." This is the way to attain śānti, peace. Understand Kṛṣṇa—that He is the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor, and the supreme friend of everyone. "Accept Kṛṣṇa as your friend. You'll be happy." This is the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



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Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the final question is: "What is your view regarding proselytizing or preaching?"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: We are simply attempting to bring people to the real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [15.7] all living entities are part and parcel of Me. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4] ... ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ: "Of all forms of life, I am the seed-giving father." In other words, the natural position is that every living entity—animals, plants, and human beings, including Indians, Americans, Czechs—everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a process of trying to convince people of some speculative idea. This movement is actually bringing people to their real position—that they're all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial proselytizing: "You are Christian; now become a Hindu." It is not like that. This movement is actually bringing people back to their natural position—part and parcel of God.

The effects of artificial proselytizing will not stand. But when one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that real understanding—bringing everyone back to his original position. At the present moment everyone is in a diseased condition: people are thinking they are something other than servants of Kṛṣṇa. Now this movement is trying to bring everyone to the position of recognizing that they are eternal servants of Kṛṣṇa.

This movement is not some kind of rubber-stamp proselytizing—"You were Christian; now you are Hindu." After all, if one does not know what his position is, what benefit will he derive by simply being stamped "Hindu"?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No benefit. He'll still be in ignorance of his real, spiritual identity.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: If you keep someone on the ignorant platform, then what is the benefit of making a Christian or a Muslim into a Hindu? No, artificially changing someone into a Hindu will not help. One must know the philosophy of life. One must know what God is. One must learn how to love God. That is real life.